James Jones vs. Scottie Pippen Season by Season Comparison

Side by side comparison of each NBA season of Scottie Pippen and James Jones, from their rookie seasons to their last year played, in chronological order with awards, stats, championships and playoff performance of their teams every year.

Player comparisons:
Career comparison / Season by season / Games against each other

Who had the better rookie season? Who had best stats in their 10th season? Who won a championship first? These questions and many others, are answered here.

James Jones played 14 years in the NBA, 3 less than Scottie Pippen, who played 17. James Jones had the first of his seasons in 2003-04, while Scottie Pippen had his rookie season in 1987-88. With that starting point, here you can take a look at each of their seasons side by side and compare how their careers evolved in achivements, awards and championships won, the stats they recorded both in the Regular Season and the Playoffs and how their teams performed in the postseason.

Their Careers
Player	Total Seasons	Playoffs Played	NBA Years
James Jones	14	12	2003-04 to 2016-17
Scottie Pippen	17	16	1987-88 to 2003-04

Comparison Season by Season
Jump to season: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17


Rookie Season
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2003-04	1987-88
Team	Indiana Pacers	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards
Playoffs	Did Not Play	Bulls Lost East Conf Semis

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	6	4.3	1.2	0.0	0.3	0.3	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.3	1.5	.222	0.2	0.7	.250	0.3	0.3	1.000
Scottie Pippen	79	20.9	7.9	1.5	2.3	3.8	2.1	1.2	0.7	1.7	2.7	3.3	7.1	.463	0.1	0.3	.174	1.3	2.2	.576

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Scottie Pippen	10	29.4	10.0	2.4	2.8	5.2	2.4	0.8	0.8	2.6	3.3	4.6	9.9	.465	0.3	0.6	.500	0.5	0.7	.714


Season 2
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2004-05	1988-89
Team	Indiana Pacers	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards
Playoffs	Pacers Lost East Conf Semis	Bulls Lost East Conf Finals

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	75	17.7	4.9	0.5	1.8	2.3	0.8	0.4	0.4	0.6	1.6	1.7	4.2	.396	0.9	2.2	.398	0.7	0.8	.855
Scottie Pippen	73	33.1	14.4	1.9	4.2	6.1	3.5	1.9	0.8	2.7	3.6	5.7	11.9	.476	0.3	1.1	.273	2.8	4.1	.668

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	13	16.1	4.0	0.4	1.7	2.1	0.8	0.5	0.5	0.3	1.4	1.5	3.5	.413	0.8	1.9	.400	0.3	0.7	.444
Scottie Pippen	17	36.4	13.1	2.0	5.6	7.6	3.9	1.4	0.9	2.4	3.7	4.9	10.7	.462	1.3	3.3	.393	1.9	2.9	.640


Season 3
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2005-06	1989-90
Team	Phoenix Suns	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-Star Game
Playoffs	Suns Lost West Conf Finals	Bulls Lost East Conf Finals

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	75	23.6	9.3	0.6	2.8	3.4	0.8	0.5	0.7	0.5	1.9	3.2	7.7	.418	1.5	3.8	.386	1.4	1.6	.851
Scottie Pippen	82	38.4	16.5	1.8	4.8	6.7	5.4	2.6	1.2	3.4	3.6	6.9	14.0	.489	0.3	1.4	.250	2.4	3.6	.675

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	20	17.7	4.3	0.8	2.8	3.6	0.3	0.3	0.9	0.5	1.3	1.4	4.1	.341	0.4	1.3	.308	1.1	1.3	.846
Scottie Pippen	15	40.8	19.3	2.2	5.0	7.2	5.5	2.1	1.3	3.3	4.1	6.9	14.0	.495	0.7	2.1	.323	4.7	6.7	.710


Season 4
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2006-07	1990-91
Team	Phoenix Suns	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-Defensive Second Team
Playoffs	Suns Lost West Conf Semis	NBA Champion

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	76	18.1	6.4	0.4	1.9	2.3	0.6	0.4	0.6	0.4	1.5	2.1	5.8	.368	1.2	3.1	.378	0.9	1.1	.877
Scottie Pippen	82	36.8	17.8	2.0	5.3	7.3	6.2	2.4	1.1	2.8	3.3	7.3	14.1	.520	0.3	0.8	.309	2.9	4.1	.706

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	11	15.5	5.0	0.3	1.1	1.4	0.3	0.2	0.2	0.4	1.0	1.7	3.3	.528	0.7	1.6	.444	0.8	1.0	.818
Scottie Pippen	17	41.4	21.6	2.2	6.7	8.9	5.8	2.5	1.1	3.2	3.4	8.4	16.6	.504	0.2	1.0	.235	4.7	5.9	.792


Season 5
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2007-08	1991-92
Team	Portland Trail Blazers	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-NBA Second Team
	-	All-Defensive First Team
	-	All-Star Game
Playoffs	Did Not Play	NBA Champion

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	58	22.0	8.0	0.7	2.0	2.8	0.6	0.4	0.3	0.5	1.7	2.5	5.6	.437	1.6	3.5	.444	1.5	1.7	.878
Scottie Pippen	82	38.6	21.0	2.3	5.4	7.7	7.0	1.9	1.1	3.1	3.0	8.4	16.6	.506	0.2	1.0	.200	4.0	5.3	.760

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Scottie Pippen	22	40.9	19.5	2.7	6.1	8.8	6.7	1.9	1.1	3.2	3.3	6.9	14.8	.468	0.3	1.1	.250	5.4	7.0	.761


Season 6
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2008-09	1992-93
Team	Miami Heat	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-NBA Third Team
	-	All-Defensive First Team
	-	All-Star Game
Playoffs	Heat Lost East Conf 1st Rd	NBA Champion

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	40	15.8	4.2	0.3	1.3	1.6	0.5	0.3	0.4	0.3	1.5	1.4	3.7	.369	0.8	2.4	.344	0.7	0.8	.839
Scottie Pippen	81	38.6	18.6	2.5	5.2	7.7	6.3	2.1	0.9	3.0	2.7	7.8	16.4	.473	0.3	1.1	.237	2.9	4.3	.663

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	7	33.6	9.6	0.3	2.0	2.3	0.7	0.4	0.1	0.6	2.7	2.4	4.6	.531	1.6	3.1	.500	3.1	3.4	.917
Scottie Pippen	19	41.5	20.1	1.9	5.0	6.9	5.6	2.2	0.7	3.7	3.3	8.0	17.2	.465	0.2	0.9	.176	3.9	6.1	.638


Season 7
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2009-10	1993-94
Team	Miami Heat	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-NBA First Team
	-	All-Defensive First Team
	-	All-Star Game
	-	All-Star Game NVP
Playoffs	Heat Lost East Conf 1st Rd	Bulls Lost East Conf Semis

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	36	14.0	4.1	0.1	1.1	1.3	0.5	0.3	0.1	0.3	1.3	1.2	3.3	.361	1.0	2.5	.411	0.6	0.8	.821
Scottie Pippen	72	38.3	22.0	2.4	6.3	8.7	5.6	2.9	0.8	3.2	3.2	8.7	17.8	.491	0.9	2.7	.320	3.8	5.7	.660

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	1	9.0	2.0	0.0	0.0	0	0.0	0.0	0.0	1.0	1.0	0.0	1.0	.000	0.0	1.0	.000	2.0	2.0	1.000
Scottie Pippen	10	38.4	22.8	1.7	6.6	8.3	4.6	2.4	0.7	3.7	3.3	8.5	19.6	.434	1.2	4.5	.267	4.6	5.2	.885


Season 8
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2010-11	1994-95
Team	Miami Heat	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-NBA First Team
	-	All-Defensive First Team
	-	Steals Leader
	-	All-Star Game
Playoffs	Heat Lost NBA Finals	Bulls Lost East Conf Semis

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	81	19.1	5.9	0.3	1.7	2.0	0.5	0.4	0.2	0.3	1.6	1.8	4.3	.422	1.5	3.5	.429	0.7	0.9	.833
Scottie Pippen	79	38.2	21.4	2.2	5.9	8.1	5.2	2.9	1.1	3.4	3.0	8.0	16.7	.480	1.4	4.0	.345	4.0	5.6	.716

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	12	22.7	6.5	0.3	2.3	2.5	0.2	0.5	0.2	0.3	2.0	2.0	4.3	.471	1.4	3.1	.459	1.1	1.1	1.000
Scottie Pippen	10	39.6	17.8	2.4	6.2	8.6	5.8	1.4	1.0	2.7	4.0	5.8	13.1	.443	1.4	3.8	.368	4.8	7.1	.676


Season 9
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2011-12	1995-96
Team	Miami Heat	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-NBA First Team
	-	All-Defensive First Team
	-	All-Star Game
Playoffs	NBA Champion	NBA Champion

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	51	13.1	3.6	0.1	0.8	1.0	0.4	0.3	0.2	0.2	0.9	1.1	2.9	.380	0.9	2.2	.404	0.5	0.6	.833
Scottie Pippen	77	36.7	19.4	2.0	4.5	6.4	5.9	1.7	0.7	2.7	2.6	7.3	15.8	.463	1.9	5.2	.374	2.9	4.2	.679

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	20	8.7	2.6	0.3	0.8	1.0	0.1	0.2	0.1	0.2	0.6	0.8	2.2	.372	0.5	1.5	.300	0.5	0.5	1.000
Scottie Pippen	18	41.2	16.9	3.4	5.1	8.5	5.9	2.6	0.9	2.3	2.8	6.2	15.9	.390	1.7	5.8	.286	2.8	4.4	.638


Season 10
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2012-13	1996-97
Team	Miami Heat	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-NBA Second Team
	-	All-Defensive First Team
	-	All-Star Game
Playoffs	NBA Champion	NBA Champion

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	38	5.8	1.6	0.0	0.6	0.6	0.3	0.1	0.2	0.1	0.4	0.6	1.6	.344	0.4	1.4	.302	0.1	0.1	.500
Scottie Pippen	82	37.7	20.2	2.0	4.5	6.5	5.7	1.9	0.5	2.6	2.6	7.9	16.7	.474	1.9	5.2	.368	2.5	3.5	.701

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	9	3.7	1.0	0.0	0.3	0.3	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.2	0.3	0.3	0.8	.429	0.3	0.4	.750	0.0	0.0	-
Scottie Pippen	19	39.6	19.2	1.9	4.9	6.8	3.8	1.5	0.9	2.9	2.6	6.8	16.3	.417	2.1	5.9	.345	3.6	4.5	.791


Season 11
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2013-14	1997-98
Team	Miami Heat	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards	-	All-NBA Third Team
Honors & Awards	-	All-Defensive First Team
Playoffs	Heat Lost NBA Finals	NBA Champion

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	20	11.8	4.9	0.1	1.1	1.2	0.5	0.2	0.2	0.2	0.3	1.6	3.4	.456	1.4	2.7	.519	0.4	0.6	.636
Scottie Pippen	44	37.5	19.1	1.2	4.0	5.2	5.8	1.8	1.0	2.5	2.6	7.2	16.0	.447	1.4	4.4	.318	3.4	4.4	.777

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	15	8.4	3.5	0.2	0.5	0.7	0.3	0.2	0.1	0.0	1.1	1.2	2.7	.450	1.0	2.1	.469	0.1	0.2	.667
Scottie Pippen	21	39.9	16.8	2.3	4.8	7.1	5.2	2.1	1.0	2.4	3.1	5.8	14.0	.415	0.9	3.8	.228	4.3	6.4	.679


Season 12
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2014-15	1998-99
Team	Cleveland Cavaliers	Houston Rockets
Honors & Awards	-	All-Defensive First Team
Playoffs	Cavaliers Lost NBA Finals	Rockets Lost West Conf 1st Rd

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	57	11.7	4.4	0.2	0.9	1.1	0.4	0.2	0.1	0.2	1.2	1.3	3.5	.368	1.1	3.1	.360	0.7	0.8	.848
Scottie Pippen	50	40.2	14.5	1.3	5.2	6.5	5.9	2.0	0.7	3.2	2.4	5.2	12.1	.432	1.4	4.2	.340	2.6	3.7	.721

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	20	15.6	4.4	0.1	1.4	1.5	0.5	0.4	0.2	0.3	2.1	1.3	3.8	.347	1.1	3.2	.344	0.7	0.7	.929
Scottie Pippen	4	43.0	18.3	5.0	6.8	11.8	5.5	1.8	0.8	3.3	3.3	5.8	17.5	.329	1.5	5.5	.273	5.3	6.5	.808


Season 13
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2015-16	1999-00
Team	Cleveland Cavaliers	Portland Trail Blazers
Honors & Awards	-	All-Defensive Second Team
Playoffs	NBA Champion	Trail Blazers Lost West Conf Finals

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	48	9.6	3.7	0.2	0.9	1.0	0.3	0.2	0.2	0.3	1.0	1.2	3.0	.408	0.9	2.2	.394	0.4	0.5	.808
Scottie Pippen	82	33.5	12.5	1.4	4.9	6.3	5.0	1.4	0.5	2.5	2.5	4.7	10.5	.451	1.0	3.2	.327	2.0	2.7	.717

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	12	4.6	0.5	0.1	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.3	0.2	0.8	.200	0.1	0.6	.143	0.1	0.3	.250
Scottie Pippen	16	38.4	14.9	1.4	5.8	7.1	4.3	2.0	0.4	2.3	3.1	5.2	12.4	.419	1.3	4.4	.300	3.3	4.4	.743


Season 14
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	2016-17	2000-01
Team	Cleveland Cavaliers	Portland Trail Blazers
Honors & Awards
Playoffs	Cavaliers Lost NBA Finals	Trail Blazers Lost West Conf 1st Rd

more >>

Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	48	7.9	2.8	0.1	0.7	0.8	0.3	0.1	0.2	0.2	0.8	0.9	1.9	.478	0.6	1.4	.470	0.3	0.4	.650
Scottie Pippen	64	33.3	11.3	1.1	4.1	5.2	4.6	1.5	0.5	2.4	2.5	4.2	9.3	.451	1.0	2.9	.344	1.9	2.5	.739

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	8	3.8	0.3	0.1	0.4	0.5	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.3	0.4	0.1	0.6	.200	0.0	0.4	.000	0.0	0.0	-
Scottie Pippen	3	39.0	13.7	0.7	5.0	5.7	2.3	2.7	0.7	4.0	4.7	5.3	12.7	.421	1.0	5.7	.176	2.0	3.0	.667


Season 15
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	-	2001-02
Team	-	Portland Trail Blazers
Honors & Awards
Playoffs	-	Trail Blazers Lost West Conf 1st Rd

more >>

Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Scottie Pippen	62	32.2	10.6	1.2	3.9	5.2	5.9	1.6	0.6	2.8	2.6	4.0	9.7	.411	0.9	2.9	.305	1.8	2.4	.774

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Scottie Pippen	3	33.0	16.3	2.7	6.7	9.3	5.7	1.3	0.7	3.3	4.7	6.0	13.0	.462	2.0	3.7	.545	2.3	2.7	.875


Season 16
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	-	2002-03
Team	-	Portland Trail Blazers
Honors & Awards
Playoffs	-	Trail Blazers Lost West Conf 1st Rd

more >>

Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Scottie Pippen	64	29.9	10.8	0.9	3.5	4.3	4.5	1.6	0.4	2.6	2.3	4.1	9.3	.444	0.6	2.1	.286	1.9	2.3	.818

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Scottie Pippen	4	18.5	5.8	0.5	2.3	2.8	3.3	0.0	0.0	1.8	2.0	2.3	5.5	.409	0.8	2.3	.333	0.5	0.5	1.000


Season 17
	James Jones	Scottie Pippen
Season	-	2003-04
Team	-	Chicago Bulls
Honors & Awards
Playoffs	-	Did Not Play

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Regular Season Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Scottie Pippen	23	17.9	5.9	0.9	2.1	3.0	2.2	0.9	0.4	1.3	1.7	2.3	6.1	.379	0.6	2.1	.271	0.7	1.2	.630

Playoffs Stats
	G	Min	Pts	ORb	DRb	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	TO	PF	FGM / A		%	3PM / A		%	FTM / A		%
James Jones	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Scottie Pippen	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

James Jones vs. Scottie Pippen Season by Season Comparison

Side by side comparison of each NBA season of Scottie Pippen and James Jones, from their rookie seasons to their last year played, in chronological order with awards, stats, championships and playoff performance of their teams every year.

Their Careers

Comparison Season by Season

Rookie Season

Season 2

Season 3

Season 4

Season 5

Season 6

Season 7

Season 8

Season 9

Season 10

Season 11

Season 12

Season 13

Season 14

Season 15

Season 16

Season 17